"Delay of Game"

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Under XIII. A. 5. in the rules it states:
"If an offensive player unnecessarily delays putting the disc into play in violation of Rule XIX.B, a defender within 3m of the point the disc is to be put into play may issue a "delay of game” warning instead of calling a violation. If the behavior in violation of Rule XIX.B is not immediately stopped, the marker may initiate and continue a stall count, regardless of the actions of the offense. In order to invoke this rule, after announcing "delay of game," the marker must give the offense two seconds to react to the warning, and then announce "disc in" before initiating the stall count."

There have been a few situations this season where an opponent stood above the disc, or stood 3m away from the disc while giving instructions to his teammates. I've been tempted to invoke this rule to speed up the game, but I have yet to actually do it. It feels so petty for a few seconds in a division 5 league game.

Has anyone seen this called this season? Would you call it?

For me it would depend on the duration, and frequency. The first time, I'd give the player a few seconds. If they continued, no big deal. But if they kept standing there calling instructions, I'd definitely call it. And if they kept doing this repeatedly throughout the game, my delay would reduce to zero pretty quick.

Well, you've always got to give a two second warning, but yes I wouldn't hesitate to call this if
the offense is obviously taking the opportunity to set up (which is against the rules).

The player doesn't have to be standing over the disc either. If they're off to the side a bit, it can
still be called (this is different from the 10th ed, where the player had to be "standing over" the
disc. Also in the 10th, you didn't have to give a 2 second warning).

Note, there's certainly a grey area in what constitutes an "unnecessary delay". Walking slowly
while setting up wouldn't qualify in my book. You pretty much have to give the benefit of the
doubt and wait until it's patently obvious. As always, you're the ref, but the other ref (the future
handler) might disagree with you.

This is becoming a huge problem in high school Ultimate where non-Ultimate player coaches don't know that it is against the rules.

But isn't there a required pre-stall count? You 'officially' have 10 seconds to put the disc into play - and some people (who are aware of the rule) are using that as an excuse to stand over the disc. I'd much rather invoke the Delay of Game and 2 second warning (which is what I was instructing until faced with the pre-stall count).

So which is it? (Sorry, I don't have time to look it up!)
C

Actually, it's both, but the 2 second is more specific to the general 10 and 20 second pre-stall rules.

Yes, you have the 10 (or 20, depending) seconds to put the disc into play. UNLESS you're already ready earlier than that but are then delaying.

...

In other words... the MOST you have is 10 (or 20) seconds, BUT you can't delay to extend to the maximum time... if you're ready earlier, you need to get play going earlier.

As Mortakai said, there are two sides to DoG.

Although just a clarification, you don't have to be 'already ready' to put the disc into play to
be unnecessarily delaying (eg: standing still and directing your O before even walking to the
disc is still unnecessarily delaying). And you don't have to pick up the disc to stop
unnecessarily delaying (continuing the eg: if the player stops that delay and starts walking to
the disc, they're no longer unnecessarily delaying).

--

An aside: it sounds like the non-Ultimate player coaches don't really have a better or worse
understanding of the rules than the ultimate player coaches. You just have different subsets of
knowledge.

What would ultimate look like if the high school coaches organized a 1h rules meeting
each year. You could assign each player homework to read through the rules and come to the
meeting with a list of questions (that would take about 30min). At the meeting you could go
through each part of the rules. It wouldn't take long at all, and the knowledge gained would
build on itself each year as the 12s pass down to the 11s, etc. Currently only the 'telephone
game' version of the rules are passed to the kids, and that only leads to everybody playing
under slightly different rules, thinking the other team is cheating where the differences crop
up. Imagine if the young players in the league already had a foundation of how to play fairly
and within the rules.

Ah fantasy.

Played a game this weekend, and the handler stood over the disc. I said delay of game, went to count 3, 2, 1 before starting the stall count, and he said pre-stall first then delay then starting the count...

From what I am reading however, it goes this way...

1)Between disc down and the new thrower picking up the disc, there is 20 second pre-stall, after which is delay of game, 2, 1, stalling 1....

2) If new thrower is ready but standing over the disc w/o picking up, it is delay of game, 2, 1, stalling 1...

3) After the stall has begun due to delay of game, once they pick it up I would still continue counting - it is not a new possession so I don't go back to stalling 1 right?

Obviously, as mentioned before, I would not do this every single time, but only if it was repeated and after mentioning it to the opposing player/team prior.

On another note, what happens on a violation? How is that different from a foul? I had an issue with disc space...

You're mostly there, but have missed some of it.

After a TO, if the disc is laying on the playing field proper (not OB, not in end zone), you can
give 10 and 5 second warnings, then announce "Disc In" and immediately begin the
Stall count. When the disc is OB or in the end zone, you have to give 20, 10, and 5 seconds
warning. Note that the pre-stall warnings aren't really a stall in that you don't have to count
aloud, you only have to announce those particular warnings at the appropriate times.

You can do this regardless of what the Offense does.

The other DoG case is when the other team is unnecessarily delaying. They don't have to be
ready, they don't have to be standing over the disc, they don't have to be doing anything
other than, in your opinion, "unnecessarily delay[ing] putting the disc into play". When this
occurs you may announce "Delay of Game", and then you have to wait 2 seconds (this isn't a
warning, it's just a wait) for them to correct the behaviour. If they don't stop "unnecessarily
delay[ing] putting the disc into play", then you may immediately begin the Stall Count.

Once you've begun the stall count, you can continue it, regardless of what the Offense does.

In order to invoke any of these rules, you must be within 3m of where the disc is to be put
into play (if it's in the end zone, you have to be within 3m of the disc) when you announce
"Disc In" or "Delay of Game".

--

As to your other note. You may want to start another thread about it. Violations generally
aren't treated much differently than Fouls, but there are some differences. There are some
infractions that are different from Violations and Fouls, Disc Space is one of them.

http://www.vul.bc.ca/v3/home/download/UPA11thEd.htm

I leave it to you to take a look at the rules, and come back with questions about it (you'll get
a quick reply, I promise). Please start a new thread though, it won't help others that have
similar questions to bury your questions at the bottom of this unrelated thread.

Cheers

so if a team is unnecessarily delaying putting the disc into play (for example their entire team is stationary), and you give them the two second wait for them to correct their behavior (say you give the two second wait, and because of that announcement a thrower starts walking towards the disc to pick it up), since they corrected their behavior you then cant start the stall count until they pick it up, correct??

"...and because of that announcement a thrower starts walking towards the disc to pick it up),
since they corrected their behavior you then cant start the stall count until they pick it up,
correct??"

That's correct.

Remember the 10s (20s when OB or in the end zone) DoG time limits don't depend on what the
Offense does. They do not require any delaying of the game, unnecessary or otherwise. They
require only that the disc be put into play within those time limits. Please see the rules for full
details.