Drop the Pull...TO!

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Mostly this is aimed at MY teammates, but it's something that has been happening more and more of late.

If you attempt to catch the pull and drop it, it's a turn over! Why is it that in this one situation a team should be given a do over. "Just pick it up" someone will yell from the pulling team, or sideline or wherever.

If I drop a wide open pass I don't get it back. If I get stalled I don't get 10 more seconds. If I drop the pull it's a TO! There is nothing "spirited" about giving a team the disc back for dropping the pull.

Catching a pull is a strategy that allows the receiving team to get the first pass off faster. It has a risk, live with it!

My daily rant.


Partially Disagree. It depends on the situation. If you are rolling the team
and they can't get anything going, say its 10-1, why not give it to them?

Why not give them 15 stall counts? Why not stop playing D? Why not allow them to make 4 drops before the 5th one "counts".

If a team is losing 10-1 then I suggest that they should not worry about catching the pull. Or on the other hand, they should try to catch the pull for practice and deal with the results of that attempt.

If you want to be really spirites (or actually spirited as opposed to random rule changes) then finish off the game, mix up the teams and play 3-4 more points with your "good" players coaching their "bad" players. Or maybe run a drill with them to help them improve? Both of those ideas will help much more than allowing them to pick up a dropped pull and then throw another TO.

Teaching anyone that losing means the rules of the game change isn't teaching them anything useful.


Um..."daily" rant? I haven't seen enough to be convinced that they are daily.

More rants, please.

I think its situational as well! If youre playing div 8 with a bunch of people who are new to the game and that happens, yes explain the rule to everyone, but i dont think its unspirited for the pulling team to let them have it.

Ninja - Most of my rants aren't posted, I just yell at a wall for 20 minutes...



That said...my daily rant of the week:

Can't we agree that there is a "rule" in league that you need to report and/or confirm your game score? Not doing this just makes life harder on the organizers. Every semester teams and players wait for the re-pooling, and this process is held up in part because of a lack of scores.

I say if you are 0-0 after 4 weeks that shows you are actively avoiding scorekeeping and you should just be moved down a division. Maybe that means playing below your skill level and that will be annoying for the teams you are playing, but it will be annoying for you for everygame.

Heck, move them down 2 divisions! Or to the bottom division. Thanks for your league fees, have fun playing pointless games for 4 weeks.


IN - I'm pretty sure even the wall gets tired of it after a while.

... you only last 20 minutes?


But yes, I completely agree that it's completely spirited to not play by the agreed-upon rules... HOLD ON A SECOND... that CAN'T be right...

Weekly rant of the day....

51% of all teams have a Spirit Ranking of 11.5/12 or better. 88% of all teams have a ranking of at least 11/12.

What is the point of this???

Also - Train Wreck - Why hasn't team KRUSH been assembled to show them what's what?


The spirit system is broken and has been for years. Welcome to 2012!

As an angry mob, how do we fix it?

What do we want it to do? How can we make it do that? Why can't life be easy?

Is it good spirit if you have a good cheer but your choreography is all wrong?


EDIT - I see I was wrong, from ExecDir's info below. Thanks for that, I guess I should've just gotten off my lazy ass and looked for the spirit grading system myself. :)

Original, misinformed post follows below.

* * *

Not a captain, not on the exec, so this may be a stupid question because it may already be addressed but:

Is there a rubric for grading spirit (rubrics are something I hear about from my fiance all the time, she's a teacher)? Or are people just asked to rate on a scale of 1-12? And for that matter, why is the scale 1-12? Why not 1-10 like everything else?

For example, a simple rubric could look like this:

10 (exceptional): The opposing team demonstrated exceptional spirit. They went out of their way to be friendly before, during, and after the game to both us and their own teammates. They offered help to our players where appropriate, and participated fully in a great spirit game after the match... (etc.)
5 (average): the opposing team was on time, handled disputed calls fairly, was helpful when others on their team or our asked, and cheered/participated in a spirit game after the match.
0 (poor): the other team was late, were confrontational when disputing foul/violation calls, demonstrated frustration/anger towards other players, and did not cheer or participate in a spirit game after the match.

^^^Where 9-6 and 4-1 would be filled in as appropriate by those in the know. Rubrics are useful as instead of making a subjective call on rating, there is a previously agreed upon selection of criteria. You pick which on matches the thing being graded, and assign a mark appropriately.

Of course, that assumes that people understand that on a simple scale of 0-10, 5 would be average, which they most certainly don't.

People seem to think that 7 or 8 should be average, when in reality, and by definition, that doesn't make sense.

At least it doesn't to me. lol

But then again, this is just a suggestion and I may be way off base or misinformed. Wouldn't be the first time. :)

Spirit scores are not a simple subjective grade. See the Spirit page (under the Home tab) for details on how the score is calculated: http://www.vul.bc.ca/v3/home/spirit/

The system tracks a number of factors that the league considers important to measure. We tweaked the questions last fall to track start times better, and remove vague questions that captains had complained about, but it appears the tweaks resulted in a higher average than previous years. That was unintentional (and unexpected) and we plan to modify it again.

Note that a high average is not necessarily a bad thing. A high average can just mean that the majority of VUL teams are doing the right things to help games go well. It depends what you want to measure. If we wanted to see teams on a bell curve (so the peak was in the middle) then it's not working. But the current system wasn't designed that way. It was designed to reinforce actions that the league felt would help games go smoothly. So if the scores are high, then that should mean most teams are doing those things, and the league should be running well. Which we believe it is, overall.

The main problem with the recent changes is that it's now harder to recognize teams at the top. i.e. those who are making an extra effort. We'll try to correct that asap. If you have any suggestions for updates or changes to the spirit system, feel free to email me or Speedo.

Thanks ExecDir for that explanation. Perhaps captains could award a special bonus point for "teams that go above and beyond the spirit of the game", and those points accumulate separately throughout the year. If - ideally - each captain was only awarding that specific "bonus point" once ever 4 or 5 games, then it should be pretty evident by year-end who was the cream of the crop?

I think of "all players displayed outstanding sportsmanship" as being similarly "above and beyond." Not everyone agrees.

Rob By Rob

To me there are two problems with the spirit system. First, since nothing really results from giving a team an 8 or 9 or something middling (beyond potential hard feelings between sensitive captains - "We did too cheer you after the game!"), many captains seem to prefer to give 11s or 12s as their default "everything was fine" score, which erases any small differences that might exist between teams (resulting in almost everyone getting 11+). The other problem is that some captains use the spirit system to give negative reports without previously bringing up those problems with their opposing captain (and giving that captain a chance to respond/adjust as necessary on the field).

All of this leads to the spirit score system adding little to our real understanding of spirited play (especially exceptional spirited play) and sometimes actually detracting from it (by giving captains the chance to air their grievances passively online, instead of through a healthy in-person conversation with their opponent).

My revised spirit score proposal:

1. All games are assumed to be good and spirited, with no serious problems. An outline is given for what is expected for a good game, including all the points currently on the spirit score checklist. (A checklist like we currently have could be provided, but it wouldn't lead to a score - just info for organizers if a certain team is never cheering/playing a game, etc.)

2. There is a space to report "major" violations which significantly detract from game play/enjoyment. Repeated dangerous play, not being able to field after 30 minutes, etc. It is emphasised that this space is only used after the team captains have verbally communicated with one another about the problem, and have been unable to come to a positive resolution (i.e. you can't report it until you've tried to talk it out). This could be confirmed using a check box that you have to click before you can enter the report.

3. On the very rare occasion that a captain is not comfortable talking to the opposing captain, they are encouraged to contact the LC directly instead of using the reporting system.

4. Each team is given a certain number (3? 5?) of "gold stars" (or whatever you call them) for the season, to be given out for exceptionally spirited games (similar to what Rolly described above). This is the only thing that is calculated and listed in the spirit score system.

To me, this system would lead to more dialogue (and hopefully, through that, less conflict), while also really championing those truly exceptional teams, instead of massing almost all of us at the top of the pile...

Just an idea!