Foul, but would prefer not to playon

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#1

Lets say the thrower is forced to throw a relatively long dump pass directly back field and gets fouled in the process. She calls foul, and the disc is caught. Does the team on offence have to take the disc at the point of reception (at a loss of a bunch of yards), or can it come back to thrower?

The dump keeps it, no BTT.

I wouldn't want the thrower to be able to use a foul call to reverse their own bad (yet
successful) decision.

The inherent principle of the Ultimate rules is to attempt to create the conditions that would
have resulted had the foul not occurred.

This assumes, and it sounds like, the foul occurred DURING the throwing motion.

If, however, the foul occurred BEFORE the throwing motion, including that it occurred during the windup (which is not part of the throwing motion), then a completion WOULD come back. Even if the thrower didn't get the "foul" out of her mouth until the throw started.

OK then.

1. If the foul occurred during the throwing motion and the disc is caught: the throw has to stay.

2. If the foul occurred before the throwing motion (maybe a bump on the pivot, step out, but before motion of the arm), the throw would come back even if the receiver caught it.

Raises another question:
I see throwers getting bumped, not calling anything (foul, disc-space, etc), throwing something that ends in a turn, then calling the bump. How much delay is allowed between the foul and the throw attempt. If the thrower is bumped on stall 4 and the motion to throw (pivot, fake, step-out, what-have-you) doesn't start until stall 5, is the foul call still valid? I've always thought that I needed to call a foul when it occurs.

Aside: the decision to throw backfield isn't necessarily a bad one: it may be the only option the thrower has, or it might potentially open up a bunch of field somewhere else.

Yes, an infraction call must be made "immediately" (XVI.A) if it is going to be made. The definition of immediacy is left suitably vague.

In your hypothetical scenario, if the thrower is bumped, but then begins a separate throwing motion following the foul, then I may argue the thrower has forfeited the right to call an infraction; instead of beginning a throw, he could have made a foul call. As you say, the infraction was not on the throwing motion; the infraction was prior to the throwing motion.

Grey areas abound of course, and different perspectives may disagree on the validity of the call.

--> 2. If the foul occurred before the throwing motion (maybe a bump on the pivot, step out, but before motion of the arm), the throw would come back even if the receiver caught it. <--

Actually, that's "the throw would come back ONLY if the receiver caught it". A turnover stays turned. I.e., no "free shot" for the thrower fouled before the throw.

And your question on timing is one of the main reasons for the wording being when the foul occurred, as compared to when the foul was called. They're the same if the foul is called "immediately", but that's often not the case. It is resolved based on when the foul occurred.

I would suggest that as long as the call is made within a 'reasonable' amount of time... to me, 'reasonable' is however long the person's brain takes to realize that contact occurred, that's it's significant enough to be considered a foul, and that they should call it... which sometimes takes 1-to-2 seconds.

What we don't want to see is a person fouled on the throw, and then waiting for the catch/drop result before calling the foul. Same thing with the travel call, or of course any other call. The call should be made right away, and not wait for the result of the pass to then decide whether to call it or not.

But although it might (maybe) be a valid comment, suggesting to the person that they're no longer able to call it and their (fair) resolution is no longer an option will simply get into a 'discussion' that will likely end up unresolved and bringing the disc back anyway... so I think it's better to suggest to the person later that it's better all round to make the call right away.

Play on.

its called continuation. The dump keeps it.