Fouls in the Endzone

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Receiver calls foul in the endzone-disc not caught...foul UNcontested--->disc goes back to endzone line or to thrower or is it considered a goal? - isn't there a rule stating that a goal is any legal pass caught in the endzone?

XI. Scoring

A. A goal is scored when an in-bounds player catches any legal pass in the end zone of attack, and retains possession of the disc throughout all ground contact related to the catch

AND...

Receiver calls foul in the endzone-disc not caught...foul Contested--->disc goes back to endzone line or thrower?

Hope that makes sense.

Uncontested foul would be intended receiver's disc on goal line. If they had caught the disc (control of non-spinning disc), then been fouled which resulted in a drop (ie: a strip), the point would count.

Contested foul would go back to the thrower, as per usual.

"Uncontested foul would be intended receiver's disc on goal line."

Almost, but not quite. To be perfectly clear, an uncontested receiving foul awards possession to the fouled player (who may not be the intended receiver). Also, under the current set of rules, the possession is now awarded to the fouled player on the spot of the playing field closest to the spot of the infraction (in this case, in the endzone). In past editions of the rules, possession was awarded at a spot on the "playing field proper" which has since changed.

XVI. H, 3.b.2 -- If XVI.C.2.b.1 of the continuation rule applies: if the call is uncontested, the fouled player gains possession at the spot on the playing field closest to the spot of the infraction. If the foul is contested, the disc reverts to the thrower.

to add to atanarjuat's awesomeness...

yes, when uncontested, the disc is awarded to the fouled player inside the endzone where they were fouled, and checked in there... but since the player got possession in the end zone other than catching it, they then move to the line after the check.

[11th Refs: X.B., X.C., XI.A]

Remember, the only way you are given the score is if you actually catch it. So uncontested strip = goal; uncontested receiving foul (non-strip) != goal.

How about a foul (contact between players... not contact with a disc) which
causes a player to lose possession of the disc?

Example: Offensive player (X) jumps and catches the disc. Defensive player
(Y) contacts X while making a bid on the disc. The contact throws X off
balance causing him to crash to the ground and lose possession of the disc
upon impact. X calls foul. Y does not contest.

If no contact had been made, X would have been able to land normally on two
feet and would not have fallen causing the loss of possession of the disc.

As far as I could tell (by quickly glancing through the rules), this would only
be an uncontested receiving foul and not a goal (Not a strip because Y did not
initiate contact with the disc). If that's correct it's kinda dumb, as you caught
the disc and if there had been no contact it would have been a goal.

Thoughts?

Hello El Duke:

The situation you described should result in a goal. I have copied the Rule below.

XI. Scoring
2. When an in-bounds player in possession of the disc whose first ground contact will be completely within the end zone loses possession of the disc due to an uncontested foul, or lands out of the end zone due to an uncontested force-out foul (XVI.H.3.b.4), that player is awarded a goal.

Thanks everyone!!

So basically, if I have this correct. Receiver must have initially caught the disc in some manner in order to be awarded a goal in an uncontested fould in the endzone.

If a receiver attempted to catch the disc, but didn't catch it, but was fouled in the process of running after the disc. An uncontested foul should go back to the endzone line correct?

correct?

"Receiver must have initially caught the disc in some manner in order to be awarded a goal in an uncontested foul in the endzone."

Yep.

"If a receiver attempted to catch the disc, but didn't catch it, but was fouled in the process of running after the disc. An uncontested foul should go back to the endzone line correct? "

Err, I'll say it this way:

If a receiver didn't catch the disc because of an uncontested receiving foul, he gets awarded the disc (on the playing field) about where the foul occurred. If this means that he gets awarded the disc in the endzone, then he must check it in at that spot before running back and establishing a pivot at the endzone line.

At least, he ought to run, because there might be a defender counting stalls (but that's a whole 'nother barrel of fun).

I think you meant run to the line & then check it in right? Bc checking it in at the spot of
the infraction & then running back to the end zone line is a travel, no?

& in all these cases if the foul was contested it just goes back to thrower right?

Thanks guys!

No, you check in the disc first, then run to the line (Mortakai wanted to emphasize that earlier).

Restarting the game with a check just makes the disc "live" and ends the stoppage -- you may even find yourself having to check while standing out-of-bounds one day, or possibly checking whilst the disc is way off yonder and in nobody's possession.

Then, you can move to the line, establish a pivot, and ground-tap the disc to indicate that the disc is "in play."

Confusion sometimes arises because, in a lot of cases, players are already on the playing field proper, with a legal pivot, and holding the disc when they check it in. And in this special but very common case, two birds are killed with one stone -- the disc is immediately put "in play" with the check.

And yeah, a contested receiving foul is resolved by giving the disc back to its thrower.

i think it's because I have checkin in the disc confused with tapping the disc to the ground to indicate that the disc is "in play". Isn't it the same thing?

How else do you check the disc in beside tapping the disc to the ground and checking it in with the opposing player?

Well, ground-tapping the disc is also used to indicate that you have established a legal pivot in general -- for example, you'll need to do this when running back to a sideline or the goal line with a live disc.

As you've said, if you're holding the disc after a stoppage, you must use a ground-tap to check in the disc if there is no marker present (an offensive self-check). But if no one has possession (e.g., maybe you were about to pick it up when someone got fouled), you will need a defensive self-check.

Here are the relevant checking rules:

4. Offensive Self-check: If play is to restart with a check, but no defensive player is near enough to touch the disc in the thrower’s hand, play restarts with an offensive self-check. To restart play using an offensive self-check:
a) the defense must acknowledge readiness; and
b) the thrower establishes a pivot at the appropriate spot on the field, touches the disc to the ground and loudly announces “in play.”

5. Defensive self-check: If play is to restart with a check, but no offensive player is in possession of the disc at the appropriate spot, play restarts with a defensive self-check. To restart play using a defensive self-check:
a) the disc is placed at the appropriate spot on the field;
b) the offense must acknowledge readiness; and
c) the defender closest to the disc loudly announces “in play.”

Some notes, because this is one of the more awkward passages in the rules:
1) The appropriate spot "on the field" is not unambiguously "on the playing field." Some members of the IRC have mentioned that they would like to clarify this language for those rare/ultra-weird scenarios where these distinctions may actually be important.
2) Although you must announce "in play" according to checking rules, the state of the disc may subsequently become "live" (as in gaining the disc in the endzone).
3) Although the "Offense Self-Check" rule requires you to "establish a pivot," it is superseded by specific rules. In the context of the original question, it is superseded by the endzone possession rules:

B. If a team gains or retains possession in the end zone that they are attacking other than by scoring a goal in accordance with rule XI, the player in possession must carry the disc directly to, and put it into play at, the spot on the goal line closest to where possession was gained.

C. If a team gains or retains possession of a dead disc in the end zone that they are attacking, the disc is checked into a live state where the infraction occurred, and the thrower then proceeds according to X.B.

That was probably way more confusing than it was worth. In all those words, there's an escalating probability I misspoke somewhere too.

Put briefly:
1) Ground-tapping is sometimes used when checking, but it is not the same as checking. Checking is always used to end a stoppage; ground-tapping is sometimes used to indicate you have a legal pivot.

2) Defensive self-checks are examples of the kind you requested.