James resigns as NDP leader

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#1

Holy cow. I didn't think she'd back down, but there you go.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/12/06/bc-carole-jam...

Question: Is Carol James the least successful BC Politician of all time?

Who won the pool?

Well, under her watch the NDP has rebuilt itself from two seats to a serious contender to form the next gov't and there are no Maui mugshots of Carole James.

In contrast, her counterpart presided over an administration dogged by resignations, criminal investigations, cost overruns, and broken promises. Now the Liberals stand a very good chance of going the way of the Socreds.

History has a way of negating propaganda. In due course I expect the current gov't won't find itself bathed in a very favourable light.

Fairly weak come back CK. A whale trapped at the Vancouver Aquarium could have "re-built" the NDP from 2 seats. That was a total melt-down, anyone running the party (with no left leaning alternative party) would have picked up seats after that.

Put aside love or hate for Gordo, he is successful in terms of Wins. 10-strait elections (or something like that). 3 term Preimier. I'm not saying that means he was good or bad for the province, but Carol James went 0-3, and the last one of those was against a party and leader who was well past the expiry date. Then she attempts to strong arm her own party into compliance and gets punted. Again, good or bad you can debate, but successful or not you can't.

As for History negating propaganda, that works both ways. Already in the States they are longing for the good old days under Bush. Hell, people are even listening to The Zam here now. With the overall economic record, Olympics (we will only remember the parties and the medals) and 3 wins in a row, I think History will land on Campbells side.

m2c

"Put aside love or hate for Gordo, he is successful in terms of Wins. 10-strait elections (or something like that)."

10 straight in Point Grey. Pretty safe riding if you ask me, and not much of a testament to the individual.

"but Carol James went 0-3, and the last one of those was against a party and leader who was well past the expiry date."

She won her riding, just as Campbell did. It's not a head to head competition in our system. As for the party and leader past their expiry date, I must be mis-remembering the glowing and laudatory editorials that characterized much of the media's take on the gov't last election.

"With the overall economic record, Olympics (we will only remember the parties and the medals) and 3 wins in a row, I think History will land on Campbells side. "

Our great economic record doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Will McMartin has repeatedly put the lie to that piece of propaganda over at The Tyee.

History is a harsh mistress. Can you think of a leader who grew in stature after his/her at-bat came to an end? Invariably the skeletons are uncovered... I can't imagine the current gov't will be any different, and they're already starting from a pretty lacklustre position.

could you elaborate on economic record not standing up? Or link to/explain what
you're talking about?

While history might judge Gordo's liberals in a less favourable light (although who
knows, it might go the other way) history won't even remember Carol James. If
you don't think that how the leader of an opposition performs measured against
the party they opposed, what do you think the measure of success should be?

One story of many by McMartin which looks past the cheerleading to deconstruct the Liberals supposed fiscal prudence, entitled:

"Will McMartin Shoots Down Squawking Gaggle of Campbell Praisers

A 'great' premier whose fiscal skill made BC 'great' for business? The facts say no."

linked below.

I think James has done a pretty good job all things considered, certainly not the 'least successful politician' ever, which was the original question. Plenty of people have run for office repeatedly and have never even been elected.

First off, the question was least successful, and CK seems to be trying to make some odd argument that Carol James is MORE successful than Gordo, which can't be support in any way.

Certainly there are people who ran, lost and went away. I suppose I could have been more specific with the question. It is silly to consider someone who ran for the Green Party in Vancouver East, lost the nomination and went back to her job at ICBC. Lets keep the focus on "Leaders", as in Canadian Politics, it is really about the leaders of the parties who then become, or don't become, leaders of the Province.

Speaking of Leaders "Can you think of a leader who grew in stature after his/her at-bat came to an end?" What a silly question.

There are plenty of examples, but here is an easy list based on some interesting evidance. People have been polling the "Historical Ranking" of Presidents for decades. The following have increased their ranking after leaving office (only looking at Presidents who left office after polling data started):

1. FDR
2. Harry Truman
3. Kennedy
4. Nixon (Yes, Nixon)
5. Regan (This is a bit debatable as there are a few polls, although I would argue that he was a doddering old fool when he left office and is now the Grandfather of the Ultra-Conservative movement in the states. Iran-Contra is forgoten, Reganomics seems to be popular)
6. Clinton

There are other examples farther back. FDR left office as #3 and he is now considered #1 by many/most. Theodore Roosevelt has also seen a bump over time.

Also, not policitcal, but what about Jesus? Then: Radical Leader of minor Cult, Now: Spiritual Icon for one of the Worlds Major Religions. Not bad...

Just like old relationships, you remember the good times and forget the "Crazy". In 10 years we will all think back fondly on Temple!

m2c

"First off, the question was least successful, and CK seems to be trying to make some odd argument that Carol James is MORE successful than Gordo, which can't be support in any way."

Umm, no I'm not. I'm pointing out she's a far cry from the least successful politician in BC history. And if you are going to refute my point about leaders, then it only makes sense you do so using your own criteria re: Canadian provincial politics.

The only thing I know is that people should and must continue to vote for the Liberals because the NDP built fast ferries. Continue to turn a blind eye to Gordo's regime shitting bloody diarrhea all over our health care system, we don't want more fast ferries. NEVER FORGET!

Hm. Honestly, if I do a quick comparison of Fast Ferries to Pacific Gateway, I think the Gateway project will do us a hell of a lot worse damage in the long term.

I agree with YourMom. Gateway is illogical.

At present, the NDP is rife with infighting and disorganization; the Liberals are
rife with deceit and corruption; Green is rife with new ideas and lemon tabouleh.
Green is imperfect but seems the only choice anymore.

Wasn't tubster being sarcastic?

CK, that link was interesting and a good bit of perspective. However it
doesn't address the difference in external economic influences on the
equation. I think the liberals have done some terrible damage to the
province, but the private sector seems to have weathered a lot better than
many other jurisdictions.