League Spirit Points?

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Looking through some of the scores posted from yesterday's games, it looks like the Spirit Scale might have changed. A bunch of teams have spirit at 11 (ranging down to 8, I think).

Does anyone know if this is because the scale has changed (and if so, is there info on what the different numbers represent?), or is this a website glitch?

The spirit scale changed - now scores will range from -2 to +11. It was changed to make the rating system more objective - ask your captain for more details :)

Ah, then it sounds like we've implemented the same spirit rating system that CUPA has implemented for CUC 2004. Information on that is easy to find.

And it sure seems to be a good one. Thanks Lori

Yes, the VUL has implemented the same skill developed for CUPA last year. It is a less subjective way of ranking the opponent. I hope it works well for us!

Good luck,


If the range of spirit scores is 8 to 11, I think people are still tending to give very high scores, in which case the scores become less meaningful.

The scale goes something like this (though in the captain's manual it's described much more clearly):

5 = a good game - nothing out of the ordinary from a SOTG point of view. In other words, your average game.

-2 = a decidedly bad experience that merits attention from the league.

11 = an amazing game - like you've only heard stories about. You would sell your first-born to be able to play that game again, it was that enjoyable.

In other words, an 8 is a mighty fine game, and you'd be lucky to play in a single game this season that merits an 11. I may be a bit pessimistic, but personally I find it hard to believe that not a single game last night was even just "average". Then again, maybe I'm wrong and this league is way better than the "outstanding" that I thought.

Yeah Gin-Boh, I think I agree with you... especially since fully 10 of the 30 games posted so far were scored at 11. And to think that 3 of these 10 are in my own division... it's obviously a great division and I'm really looking forward to humbling... er I mean playing... these teams. :)

I'd have hoped that your points were stressed to the captains at the captain's meeting... hopefully they were all there and were listening well. Now if only we could do something about their memory. ;)

Why the emphasis on quantifying spirit? The -2 - 11 point range is ludricous - do I need a protractor to evaluate my opposition's sportsmanship? How about this - Yes or No, the team was spirited. If you have a complaint about a player or team, file your complaint with the Coordinator. Have some kind of contest to determine the "most spirited team" at the year-end tourney.

Well, it's for a few reasons really.

First, I assume that the final spirit average for a team is still factored with the team's third semester total points (i.e., 2 pts for a win, 1 for a tie...) before the playoffs are setup. So a spirit 'value' of some sort is needed in order to do this.

Second, the larger scale is 'supposed' to make the spirit rating more objective rather than being highly subjective as it has been in the past. This 'should' allow for a more accurate and meaningful comparison between teams, which is particularly important in light of the first point. Unfortunately, looking at the scores so far, I doubt people are objectively rating the teams though... yet... but that's the theory anyway.

Those are the most important reasons for a spirit 'value'. And if done 'properly', would also help with your suggestion of awarding something to the most spirited team... it helps to actually figure out which team that is.

Have you seen the guidance on how to calculate a team's spirit this year? It was developed by CUPA and it seems quite good. ... to me, anyway.

As it's always been, the description of the spirit

ratings don't or won't match the actual values

given out.

What's most important is the deviation.

If all teams have an average of 9.5-10, and one

team's got an average of 7, then you know

something's wrong.

If one team's got an average of 10.8, then you

know something's right.

The only problem is when people start actually

giving out the scores based on the description.

But since that will only be a few teams doing

that, it won't have too great an effect on any one

team's spirit.


On your first point... I don't think it is NECESSARY that spirit be factored into playoff seeding... I think that is just a choice the VUL has made. We could determine valid rankings with no reference to spirit.

Objectivity is really a misplaced concept when it comes to spirit. The friendliest, most gregarious, spirited person might seem awesome to you, but make me cringe. I think quantifying spirit and approaching it as something potentially objective actually introduces the subjectivity you want to eliminate... for example, you seem to dislike the 11's you have seen... but who are you to judge, and how do you know those weren't the greatest Ulti games EVER? SPIRIT IS SUBJECTIVE.

I only made the suggestion regarding most-spirited team because some people really care about winning spirit-related goodies (I can make a case that this is unspirited, I think). It's like generosity... if you are generous so that you will be perceived as generous, isn't that actually selfishness?

Popper, I certainly understand what you're saying. Now that you mention objectivity in spirit, and how you and I may see some people's actions differently, that almost means we're inherently subjective in how we view spirit so that might be a better way anyway, rather than trying to be objective about something that is inherently a subjective thing. (That probably confuses some... maybe even me... but I think _you_'ll understand.)

And besides, if it were a subjective system, shouldn't the averages work out roughly the same as a 'pure objective' system would? Maybe, dunno... but that's the way it is this year anyway.

And what you're saying about generous acts being selfish, isn't that exactly what Joey told Phoebe? That there is no such thing as a selfless act.

Objective or subjective... selfish or selfless... whatever, I just wanna play!

I'm going to have to go with popper on this one - there doesn't seem to be a great deal of difference between the new system and the old system except that it's now out of 11.

My big complaint with the old system, and I think it still applies, is that I never get to see HOW the other team rates us. We never get to find out what the other team liked/disliked about the game. We can't improve if the score is just a number and we don't know what we did right or wrong. We're all adults here, we can handle some constructive criticism in the interest of creating more enjoyable games, can we not?

Oh, I thought the nice thing about the new system was that you'd know the things where the positives and negatives were given. If it's not given, then... well, it SHOULD be. Are you SURE the team captain doesn't receive a report of some sort when the spirit is calculated/given?

Yeah, the point is that it will be - in the works so that you can get it automatically, captains are definitely directed to provide it when asked until that time.



It's coming? Ok, I'll be quiet then. Until I think of something else to complain about. :)

No no... the new way is much better, because now our Spirit goes all the way up to ELEVEN!