Mortakai: Callahan Goal?

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I am so confused...

10th Edition Rules (XI.A)
"A goal is scored when a player catches any legal pass in the end zone of attack. (Note: This rule legalizes the Callahan goal and the self-caught tipped pass)."

11th Edition Rules (XI.A)
"A goal is scored when an in-bounds player catches any legal pass in the end zone of attack, and retains possession of the disc throughout all ground contact related to the catch."

In the 11th Edition Rules, the brackets don't exist anymore.

I have a couple of questions:

What is a legal pass? Is it like a completed pass, where it is from one teammate to another?

I am confused. Does this mean callahan goals don't exist anymore or... I dunno anymore... Help me.

A legal pass is a pass you're allowed to make. Non-legal passes would be something like throwing from out of bounds, throwing from within the endzone if you've run in, that sort of thing.

The reason for the brackets before was that the Callahan was a new addition. They probably didn't see the need to add it into the 11th, as it was already in the 10th.

Yes. However, doesn't it mean that you need to make a pass to your teammate. Whereas, if the other team made the catch it would be a turnover or interception?

Don't get me wrong. I like the Callahan Goal/Point idea... (Even though, I have seen more Callahan's Goals/Points against my team then the reverse)

I just want to know how things came about... For the revision of the rules from 10th Edition to 11th Edition. Mortakai is the only one here that I know what is somewhat a part (I don't know how big of a part) of the decision making in the UPA 11th Edition Rules.

At the same time, I welcome all feedback and thoughts about this too...

Scire, Mortie is not in Van anymore, so I don't know how often he'll post here.

Any pass caught in the other guy's endzone scores a point for one's own team. A legal pass can be from you to your teammate (in your endzone, on O) and if the defender catches it, a point is scored.

A legal pass is one thrown without violating the rules. Two examples have already been given of illegal passes...


Umm... ED. I know what you are saying. However, it doesn't add up my head. When I think of a 'pass' it is from one teammate to another. If it is to the defender, then it is a turnover/interception. I also can't find it in the 11th Edition Rules.

That is why I had been searching for Mortakai. In a set of rules, for such a sport, like Ultimate, it seems that every little word has its reasons to be there. That is why I wanted to ask him a couple of questions about the changes, and the reasons for them.

1. There is no definition of a 'legal pass' in the definitions. It leaves it as ambigious.

2. How come they remove the brackets in 11th Edition.


"When I think of a 'pass' it is from one teammate to another."

II.T.1. A pass is equivalent to a throw.

II.T. Throw: A disc in flight following any throwing motion.

XI.A. A goal is scored when an in bounds player catches any legal [disc in flight] in the endzone
of attack

There doesn't need to be a definition for "legal pass," a "legal pass" is any pass that is not
illegal, such as one being thrown from out of bounds, or during a stoppage.

You could also consider that XII.C begins "A pass is intercepted if..." Putting that together with the above points, it is a pass as soon as it leaves the thrower's hand, and it is legal as long as that thrower is allowed to throw it. Also, consider that a pass that ends up being intercepted likely started out as a pass intended for the thrower's teammate.

Alex answered your first question about the definition of a legal pass, and your second question was pretty much answered by IN: in the 10th ed the brackets were necessary to explain the new wording. By the time the 11th ed was released, callahan goals and self-tipped passes were already legal, so the rule didn't newly legalize them, hence no need for the clarification.

Okay. Therefore, in all intensive purposes it should read as...

11th Edition Rules (XI.A)
"A goal is scored when an in-bounds player catches any legal [throw] in the end zone of attack, and retains possession of the disc throughout all ground contact related to the catch."

Thank you!

Scire, are you the one posting on the Calgary site using the name Spire? If so, aren't you from Edmonton?

I just find it funny that both cities have the same discussion going, with one person trying to read too much into the term legal pass and not just accepting them as written.

Yes. and Yes.

and... Yes. You are probably right about the whole 'legal pass' part.

Originally, I was using this board, because it seems to have much more experience (That is, much more players) to help explain things. I was always under the impression that Callahan points were allowed. Until, I read 'pass' (later on, I found out that is: throw).

Well... The way I look at it: is that the 11th Edition Rules are to define the sport of Ultimate. You have to be extremely specific about it. I am sure I wasn't the only one confused about it, and I was trying to help by figuring out how the wording and phrasing worked.

Now... Squiggsy... I am wondering why you ended up checking out the CUA website... Well... Nevermind, I am just trying to make myself feel less like an Ultimate nerd, but either way, that would be a lie... That I am not an Ultimate nerd.

I just like to be an ultimate detective in my spare time and was just wondering if it was the same discussion.

I played in Calgary the last two years and was checking up on how my team was doing this year.

Thanks all for filling in for me while I'm in my zombie-like state of moving and settling.

Pretty much all correct so far, regarding what it means and why some of the changes were made... and also remember that a pull is 'not' considered to be a legal pass for scoring. (ref 11th: II.P)

Mortakai... Where did you move too?

Either way, thank you for answering my quesiton :)

Squiggsy... :)