RE: hiphip hooray...

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#1

As someone who has played in the VUL for 6 years I've watched the post game songs get phased out in favor of games and other short and snappy cheers. While some may lament this change, I personally dreaded the 7 awkward post-game minutes where we would try to come up with something witty and settle for a poorly rehearsed gong show of a cheer. Hooray for games. But now with the ever more common culture of "hiphip hooray" after games, praps things have gone too far? I mean, don't we all know that hiphip hooray is a cop out. A hiphip hooray doesn't make me forget the 13-4 beating I just took, it never puts a smile on my face like a rousing game of lookup look down, its uncreative and in fact giving a hiphip hooray, even when done well, makes me feel like a jock spoorts dood. Am I alone? Am I the only one that would rather go home after a good honest handshake where you look your nemesis in the eye and tell him/her you enjoyed playing against them, and just forget the whole hiphip hooray? Why cheapen a good game with a copout cheer. Just forget it altogether.

Conflicted at camosun

I agree, I hate it. When my teams do it I feel like a complete hypocrite.

When I say "hip hip hooray", I know I'm actually saying "this is the obligatory thing that
I'm doing to show that I am spirited".

You can't do anything specifically to show that you're spirited. You either are, or aren't.

for me spirit isn't a cheer or hiphip hooray or a game or whatever at the end. it's how you play on the field.

it pisses me off when a team plays like dicks and then has a big cheer at the end and think that they have spirit cause they can mangle some elton john song.

OMG. You had to spend seven minutes trying to be creative. Boo hoo.

The post-game games take as long if not longer than a cheer.

m2c By m2c

Post game games, bad cheer, sit around drinking something hidden in a sock and talking about the good old days...anything but HIP HIP HOORAY!!!!

HHH is the single worst spirited thing that can happen to Ultimate, stop it now. The Spirit Score meter should have a special "-3 points if the team gave you a Hip Hip Hooray". I would rather a team came over to me after a game and told me I could shove our 13-2 victory right up our asses. That I can respect...

B

I fully agree with the OP. To me, "HHH" is a cop-out, a way to "cheer" the other team that involves no thought, no sentiment, not even being on the same side of the field. Where's the personal aspect of that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that a five-minute, 4-part harmony rendition of a Neil Diamond rip-off is required. However, something that actually resembles interaction on a personal level, be it a game, or even a direct (positive) comment about the game or the team is infinitely better than the highly impersonal HHH.

Here's a crazy idea: when the game's over, walk over to someone from the other team and say, "That was a sweet layout catch you made," "I know you could have d'ed that catch I made, thanks for not bashing me though," or "You sure look hot in those shorts."

The important thing about cheers, games, affirmations or whatever is that they force people on opposing teams to interact with each other. While it's pleasant to be steamrolled by someone attractive, it's kinda cool to be mentioned by name in the other team's cheer and it's nice to get a compliment about a play you made from someone you don't even know.

As for the value of hiphip hooray, you might as well just fart at the other team...

wow, there's a lot of pent up anger towards the hiphiphooray. childhood trauma?

play the game with spirit and bring beer for post game fun.

Growing up playing soccer or football or baseball or whatever, we always gave a hiphip hooray at the end of the game, so that's what I still do now.

I've always viewed it as a team 'thank-you' to the other team.

mO By mO

well, as a girl who's been doing the HHH for the past three years...I must say, I never
thought of it as a bad thing. It's kind of our way of saying "thanks for the game" or "we're
spirited right to the end". i've never been a huge fan of after game games....

not that I don't mind games -- but I do believe someone needs to come up with a website or
a document that has a list of all ultigames that can be done after...if there's anything I fear,
its the look-up/look-down game, or rock-paper-scissors. IMHO, if we're going to be playing
games, can we atleast make it a little more interesting? reverse look-up/look-down is ok, or
cowboy-ninja-bear...anything but the generic "we're-only-doing-this-game-because-we-want-
to-look-spirited-after-kicking-the-other-teams-butt" game.

other extra fun games are the tarp game where you attempt to flip the tarp that both teams
are standing on, disc "fighting", or even ro-sham-bo races.

but i mean....if you aren't up for drinkin with the other team after, playing games, or singing
along to the new lyrics of "you're the one that I want"....maybe a hip-hip-hooray is okay
afterall??? maybe just make it a little more enthusiastic...

to wrap it up: in my opinion, hip-hip-hooray is okay in my books :)

The issue as I understand it isn't that HHH is "unspirited" or mean, but rather that it's somewhat meaningless. Yes, it originated as a way to thank/express respect for the other team, but it seems to have lost that and is now somethingt hat can be done as quickly and thoughtlessly as possible, and carries very little meaning. At least that can be the impression, even if you look at it as being a sincere "thank you."

To nip another tangent in the bud, it's not about "spirit," at least not directly. It's about respect for your opponents. While respecting your opponents is part of "spirit", so is respect for your teammates, the game and the integrity of all of these. This is demonstrated (at least to me) on the field more than anything.

the hand slaps line at the end is a good thing - some sleep walk through it but generally you get to look the other players in the eye and say nice game and show some respect.

Even if you don't totally respect the other team you are still playing a great game in nice weather in beautiful city and a wealthy, free country with no oppression or car bombs going off. That alone to me calls for a "nice game" in appreciation

in the same vein, something at the end to show some spirit is unique and special to ultimate and is part of why we love the game. (plus it can be fun) something more than the HHH I agree.. it can still be lame but show some effort, maybe on the lines of a "Hip-hop Hoorayyy-Hoooo, Heyyy, Hooo, Heyyy, Hoooo" or if they are a team of pirates give them "Three Arrrrghs".. very little effort and it goes a long way.

Our team (to some of our player's chagrin) often does the admittedly kinda lame 'Circle of Love' and says a few words which is short and sweet. but it's still than not doing it. Last night Likastik did a quick-step dance and chant that took about 20 seconds to dream up... fun..!

In western society where we generally don't know our neighbours, are too cool to show positive emotion, travel and work in cages isolated from each other, and watch talking heads for entertainment, it's refreshing to show our human side and connect with our fellow ulti players.

What? yes, I do use smileys in my emails. Why yes, I did have caffeine this morning.. Ok I did hug a tree once but no, I'm not a hippie. stop it. :)

personally am very happy people have gone away from making up songs......as for games, sometimes your just a bit to tired to get pumped to play cyclops tag or whatever...shouldn't mean you have bad spirit. Do the 3 cheers, relax for a bit......and then if some people want to play a game but you dont, let the people that want to play play, and you can cheer them on....

Also, for drinking games, ask around about circle game (batteries not included play it almost every week), involves frisbees, beer, and possible removal of clothing....freakin genius i tell you.

It's amazing to me how many "spirit" snobs we have in this league. Does three cheers really bother you? Give me a break. Consider it a verbal handshake.

I'll play your silly games (no I won't take my clothes off) if you want to, but my teams are going to continue to give three cheers at the end of games. If that bothers you, then I suppose it's all for the best.

My personal favorite way to end a game is when both teams huddle up and talk about the game (mentioned in an earlier thread). Unfortunately, I can't be bothered to round everybody up and explain it every game.

Colin, why do you give three cheers?

We give three cheers at the end of a game for the same reason anyone cheers anything. It's an acknowledgement that the game was enjoyable, and for some reason, yelling in unison with my team feels good. It's not much different than cheering at the start of the game, or after a time out.

The thought that some people look down on others in this league because their post game routine is cooler is just lame.

Colin, does your team ever not give three cheers?

Have you ever played a game that was less enjoyable?

If you've been lucky enough to have never played a game that was not very enjoyable, would
you always give three cheers even if you played such a game?

We almost always give three cheers. Most people on the team view it in a very similar manner to the handshake. Even if you were a dick on the field, I will shake your hand after the game.

I do remember not cheering on a couple of occasions. When we used to play the now defunct (i hope!) Pink Flower Fairies, one of their players would always challenge one of our smaller players to a fight. They didn't get a cheer.

On another occasion, we played a team who I know doesn't like to receive three cheers. I managed to convince my team that they would think less of us if we gave them three cheers. Most people on my team thought I was joking, but I did manage to convince them that yes, there are people like that in this league.

So let me throw some assorted ideas out there...

Personally, I would view shaking hands and doing three cheers as an acceptable minimum. But, as I was saying to groups at the Big Clinic that cycled through the 'Spirit, Safety and Rules' station, we are all out playing ulti for the same reason, we attend BBQ's and parties together, and even play in hat tournaments together -- wouldn't it be appealing to try and make a little more out of the situation at the end of a game?

If you are a 'HHH' cheering team, would you consider singling out one player on the other team as something special -- 'best layout' or 'most tenacious D' or 'dirtiest shirt of all'? Anything that works for you. Give 'em a beer. Or a pretzel. Or a jello shooter. Anything that works for you...

I also wonder if you do that kind of thing within your own team. I've played on teams that would always award a defensive star, and we had a little cow that was passed from player to player through the summer. Maybe you'd even allow the other team to select your defensive star of the game...

Again looking at the opposition, what if you e-mailed the other team before your single header night this trimester and said, "We're bringing out the BBQ. Why don't you guys join us after the game?" So silly games. No inane cheers. Just a friendly BBQ to get to know the other team...

What do you figure?

To me, the HHH says: "We thank you for the game, but are unwilling or unable to let go of our 'WE vs YOU' mentality enough to engage in a more sincere interaction at this time. We're a clique team, we're not interested in getting to know you, and we'd really just like to be with each other right now."

Disappointing perhaps, but if that's all you can muster, I understand. No point in trying to force people into doing something they don't want to do. It's no more sincere and only resentment will flow.

I suspect that most of those that have expressed opposition to HHH have played with enough different peoples that the "WE vs YOU" just isn't a strong post-game sentiment.

I don't see how three cheers displays a "we vs. you" attitude. It's acknowledging the other team. I don't understand why everyone thinks that's so wrong.

On my div5 team, we shake hands, cheer, and then do a spirit game. I guess I'm just not seeing how this is insulting anyone. If a team were to just take off without even cheering us, that would be more unspirited in my books. To me, that would display more of a "we vs. you" attitude, as it would be implying that they were just here to play against us, and who gives a shit about doing anything afterwards.

Achoo,

What sort of "sincere" interaction are you talking about?

"what sort or "sincere" interaction are you talking about"...

That's the beauty of it. Anything: as long as it's sincere. If you truly feel absolutely nothing towards this group people with whom you've just shared time for the sake of mutual enjoyment then why not just say nothing?

I just wanted an example, so I could understand what you are talking about. When my team gives a HHH, it isn't insincere. It is an honest congratulatory cheer. It's not creative, it doesn't take a large amount of effort, but it's not insincere.

If you are talking about a frank discussion about the game, a bbq, or some drinks, HHH does not preclude any of these actions.

I want to clarify that three cheers isn't my favorite post game ritual. It just irks me that some teams feel that HHH is some sort of slight, or that the other team owes them some sort of clever cheer.

I know that you're waiting for a snappy cheer

Something great that will ring inside your ear

Something nice that'll make us all feel dear

But, hey, I just want an ice-cold beer...

"Any player can begin the game, all it takes is for the person to say a word, any word (or to say a line, any line). The next player must say another word (or line) that rhymes with the previous word. Play ends when a word is repeated or a non-rhyming word is said. The violator then takes a drink. Play begins again with a new word."

"When my team gives a HHH, it isn't insincere. It is an honest congratulatory cheer."

...that any team that doesn't challange you to a fight will get.

Hey, I can see how HHH can be sincere, I just have never seen or heard it be more than an
obligatory custom.

I equate HHH to saying "bless you" after a sneeze. Polite, but pointless.

There's nothing inherently wrong with HHH, but there's nothing inherently good with HHH. On
its
own it merely serves to underscore the lack of cheer, rather than act as any sort of cheer.

Don't feel that people view HHH as a negative. I think people that are 'against' HHH are
actually against it as a replacement for any other sort of interaction. Shouting HHH isn't at all
bad, nor does it detract at all. Rather it's aproximately equal to doing absolutely no cheer.
People are against doing absolutely no cheer.

If your team sings out HHH as part of your post-game interaction with the other team,
kudos. If your team sings out HHH as your post-game interaction with the other team: boo-
urns.

..."When my team gives a HHH, it isn't insincere. It is an honest congratulatory cheer. It's not creative, it doesn't take a large amount of effort, but it's not insincere."

That's sincere. Prefacing your HHH with that quote would certainly add some meaning to it.

It doesn't change the fact that the HHH gesture - by itself - is generally accepted as meaningless. The fact that teams are still willing to give it despite being pissed at the other team should be a tip-off that its generally considered to have no worth. The "thank-you" on the garbage bins at McDonalds says more.

Literally, it is an imitation of a response to an emotion. One contrived and often regurgitated play. Many prefer the real thing. YMMV - but don't shoot the messengers.

I'll accept that many don't mind HHH. Even so: if instead, you chose to recycle the worst legit ultimate cheer in the history of the sport, over and over, to every team you've met - some of them more than once - you'd still be better off. (hmmn: note to self...)

$0.02

What is it with our west coast hippy give each other a warm fuzzie hug attitude in this city?!?!

A cheer is a cheer is a cheer. Yes SOME ultimate teams go above and beyond in this department, and others do not. One team is not more spirited than the other based on this measure only!

If a team collectively plays its butt off, and loses 14-13 and is a little bit worn out after a hard fought battle, and decides to give the HHH, so be it! That does not make them less spirited; if they just played a serious, well-played and well-governed game, that alone, is spirit in my books!

I fart in your general direction - hip hip hooray!

M

"If a team collectively plays its butt off, and loses 14-13 and is a little bit worn out after a
hard
fought battle, and decides to give the HHH, so be it!"

Sure, but why would they even bother with the HHH? Is it not because they feel some sense
of
obligatory need to do it? They are too tired or worn out to muster the slightest iota of
imagination, so like an octopus, they shout HHH and make their escape.

The point that most are making is that HHH is meaningless. It's more of a cop-out of a cheer
than a cheer itself. Thinking that HHH is a cheer is like thinking monotonely changing "good
game" while looking at hands to slap in a line is actually thanking the other team for a good
game. Now looking the people in the eye and saying "nice D" or "great hustle" or even "good
game" and meaning it, that's thanking the other team for a good game.

Is it possible for HHH to mean something? Yes, but if you take a poll of the league, I wonder
how many would have ever heard a HHH that wasn't merely an obligatory formality.

"What is it with our west coast hippy give each other a warm fuzzie hug attitude in this city?!?"

Yeah, it would sure suck if everybody had that attitude!

"Is it possible for HHH to mean something? Yes, but if you take a poll of the league, I wonder how many would have ever heard a HHH that wasn't merely an obligatory formality."

I'm not looking for meaning. This is a sports league, not church.

The only time I feel like I'm part of some sort of obligatory formality is when I get roped into a silly game after the ultimate. Didn't we just finish playing a game?

The 'cheer' is actually integral to Ultimate IMO. If you haven't cheered at the end of the game, you're playing a pale imitation of the real thing.

I say this not because I think the nature of the cheer is what is important, but rather the rationale behind it. Defusing a competitive scenario with a bit of silliness at the conclusion of the game is actually a great way of pointing out the game has no 'meaning' and the perceived importance of winning we take to the field isn't what any recreational game is really about. I also think it adds a personal touch that shows you actually honour and appreciate the other team for coming out and competing with Spirit. A hip-hip-hooray is, as others have noted, too formulaic to perform the same function. Nor do I think the games that have come to replace cheers are effective analogs to the old-fashioned cheer/song/poem/impromptu performance.

I find the biggest objections to the cheer come from people afraid to "look stupid" or silly. To which I say... You've spent an hour and a half chasing a frisbee... your dignity checked out long ago. :-)

I'd say for almost every single game I've played in the last 5 years in the VUL, my team (when I'm captaining or no), has played either a spirit game (more often) or done a "real" cheer (less often), *followed by* a hip-hip-hooray afterwards. But I don't think a HHH replaces the actual spirit game/cheer at all. Whether your team is a fun game type team or a singalong type team, you should be doing one or the other at the end of a game, and not simply a 3 cheers (unless of course time is a real factor [yes it can be] after an early game and both teams are happy with that). But I also don't see a problem with throwing in a hip-hip-hooray at the end, but I guess my teams haven't been "above" doing a "meaningless" hip-hip-hooray at the end. I'm guessing those same people who clearly have the attitude of being "better" than doing a hip-hip-hooray haven't played a lot of other organized sports, where this is simply tradition. In pretty much every single sport I've played since I can remember, it was just tradition to cheer the other team in a HHH fashion afterwards. As with most traditions, the actual meaning behind it may have been lost over time, but we still do traditional things in our daily lives ALL THE TIME. So get over yourselves, doing a HHH isn't a "copout" or whatever you want to call it, it is a univerally acknowledged gesture of sportsmanship that every single one of us probably recognize. But keep in mind, this shouldn't replace a spirit game or cheer afterwards. This is what separates the VUL from other sports leagues. I just think both types of "cheers" together are just fine. Of course, I was really a hardcore T-Ball/Pee-wee football "jock sports dood". Yep, ultimate players aren't pretentious....

Colin -- you're right, it is a sports league, not church. But it is not just ANY sports league, it is the VUL. Ultimate by rule is supposed to be played with spirit, and the VUL by mandate is approaching 'spirit' both on the field and off. What the VUL is trying to emphasize is a sense of community. And while HHH is by no means UNspirited, maybe your team can find a way that would allow it to further interact with the other teams...

-A

"I'm guessing those same people who clearly have the attitude of being "better" than doing a
hip-hip-hooray haven't played a lot of other organized sports, where this is simply tradition. In
pretty much every single sport I've played since I can remember, it was just tradition to cheer
the other team in a HHH fashion afterwards."

I've played a lot of other sports, and there's always a HHH. One other tradition in almost every
other game of each sport I've played is to have zero interaction with the other team.

You highlight the similarity of HHH in Ultimate and other sports, well I think it's the goal of
most people to differentiate ultimate from other sports. Not in literal actions of cheer, etc, but in
essence of spirit and meaning. By that I mean that we don't want to avoid shouting HHH
because it's done in other sports, but we certainly don't want to shout HHH for the reasons it's
done in other sports.

To follow up on what Temple wrote...

I'm still playing soccer, as well as Ultimate. Immediately after the final point is scored in an Ultimate Game, the players file on to the fields and shake hands and acknowledge each other, then we come up with a cheer, or play a game (my team does not ever HHH).

In soccer it's a bit different. As soon as the final whistle blows the teams go to their side of the field, then HHH, then come back to the middle of the field for handshakes. In soccer the HHH is obligatory, it doesn't matter how many yellow & red cards have occurred in the game, and how much you dislike the other team, you will still do it.

In my opinion, doing a HHH for Ultimate is telling the opposition that they are not worth the effort of coming up with a cheer or doing a game. Maybe this is how you actually feel if you have played a team with poor Spirit, but then I think it would be better to do nothing at all, and have your captain speak to their captain about the poor Spirit. Ultimate, at the league level, is not like other competitive sports because of the emphasis on SOTG. If you have had an enjoyable game against you opponents, then doing a cheer or playing a spirit game is an additional acknowledgement of the fun that you both enjoyed, and is worth that additional bit of effort that it takes.

I think it's important to state that although "Hip Hop Hooray" a good song, "OPP" is hands down
Naughty by Nature's best song. You can't beat that drumbeat.

I find it curious that as the rules approach (it's quite close now) the complexity and involvement of soccer that the spirit is following trend.

I don't want to come down on the rules committee, because I believe they've done a lot of hard work and I appreciate their efforts. I carry my handbook around, and I take great joy at knowing that my good natured heckling is fully supported by the current rules handbook (see page 41). I know that it's difficult as a volunteer organization to please everyone, and I don't propose that they do. I'm simply of the opinion that the focus on the complex rules, and the objective treatment of such a subjective issue are what are killing spirit.

The very fact that we score spirit and hand out prizes for "the best spirit" are among my suspects. Grading our opponents has failed to generate the introspection and desire to be better friends and we are now focussed on being better opponents.

It's easy to blame HHH, and while I'm not a big fan of doing it (while I admit that I have on several occasions) I definitely understand why. In fact, of all the time's I've done HHH, I've yet to witness the other team come over and cheer.

So if you're down on HHH, I suggest suck it up. Don't spread your distaste by rule ("No hip hip hooray allowed!") rather spread your enthusiasm of the game.

How about this. If you hear HHH and feel that you didn't get you requisite spirit serving, offer to buy someone on the other team a beer. Make a point of it, get to know them better. If you're the one who is upset, do something other than your usual constant unending, never-ceasing and self-serving whinging. Do something about it and buy them a beer. Get to know them better, have more fun next time, and hey, maybe we'll all be better friends again rather than better opponents?

Among the people I know who have played for over say 5 or 6 years we've all seen huge changes in the 'scene' and in how the game is played, some of us still play at a competitive level, where the spirit seems to survive a little more (possibly due to more 'veterans'?) while some of us lack the physique to continue to play competitively. I'd say of the latter group many simply stop enjoying the league because of the current focus. At least we've still got parks to play in, and friends to share the disc with.

As a relative newcomer to ultimate (second year), I must say the whole 'spirit' thing is a bit of a revelation. Having played a lot of sports growing up, like Colin I don't understand the lack of enthusiasm towards HHH. I think it's just a recognition of appreciation for the other team - nothing more, nothing less.

Spirit, on the other hand, is not some stupid little game or singalong, IMHO. Spirit, to me, is how we and our opponents play the game. If someone makes a nice catch or a great defensive play, I will congratulate them during the course of the game.

If a team we are playing are complete jerks throughout the whole game, but then sing us a song, so what? Is that good spirit?? Not to me, it isn't.

I may be out to lunch here, but I think the whole singalong/game notion of spirit is horribly overrated. More attention should be paid to the actual interaction *during the game*, rather than anything extraneous.

I totally agree with Sean... For the most part I don't enjoy the little games or cheers, but I do enjoy when the other team says "good point," "nice run," "great bid," etc. during the game. That makes me feel like they are nice people and makes me want to play with them again.

I come from a competitive sports background, and to me, I go to my ultimate games to compete without the cheating the refs and the "you can't like the other team" mentalities (drilled into basketball players, you aren't even supposed to help your friend up if they're on the other team on the teams I've played with). We come up with cheers if we can because it's part of the spirit checklist thing and because of threads like this one where people say they appreciate more than just the generic cheer. Personally, I'd rather just get hiphiphooray and a well meant handshake from my opponents any and every day. I feel like being jerks during the game and then wanting to play a game or sing us a song is a cop out, while playing hard and being respectful then giving a HHH is the best thing an opponent could do for my team.

"I may be out to lunch here, but I think the whole singalong/game notion of spirit is horribly
overrated."

I agree. The interaction with the other team is what's important, not the content of that
interaction. Too often the importance is lost and the focus is on going through the motions of
a game. In such a case the game is no different from a meaningless HHH. I think almost all
would agree that the percentage of post-game mini-games that are meaningless is far, far,
FAR, fewer than the percentage of HHH that are meaningless.

"I don't understand the lack of enthusiasm towards HHH. I think it's just a recognition of
appreciation for the other team - nothing more, nothing less."

I think this is the sticking point. Most people see HHH as nothing close to a recognition of
appreciation for the other team, because it is most often quite a bit less. Honestly if you're
shouting HHH in appreciation of the other team, then your HHH is great, however most
people feel that you're in the vast minority. For most people, they've seen HHH in a
multitude of sports and it's just about always been nothing more than a requisite chant that
means little more than there were no fights with the other team.

"I may be out to lunch here, but I think the whole singalong/game notion of spirit is horribly overrated. More attention should be paid to the actual interaction *during the game*, rather than anything extraneous. "

I think you either 'get it' or you don't when it comes to the reason why the concept of the cheer at the end of the game has real importance in keeping ultimate true to its spirited roots. One could make sweeping generalizations about the type of folks who get it and those who don't but those generalizations would only be accurate most of the time.

This topic has come up in most of my recent games since this thread has started, when the two captains would meet at the end of the game and discuss what we'd like to in terms of a spirit game/cheer. A lot of times the game had been time capped, and our oppositions would be patiently waiting to start the 2nd game of the night, and one team might suggest "hey, do you want to do a quick spirit game, some sort of quick cheer as in a hip-hip-hooray?" In response, I'd ask "Would a HHH be alright with you guys? I mean, there's all this heat on the forums about players being unhappy with HHH and calling it a copout!" The other captain would reply with something along the lines of "Really? People are pissed off about that? What kind of *insert derogatory term* person would think that is a copout?? We played a great game, it was lots of fun, lets gather for a quick cheer and get on with our next game!" Both captains were happy, a quick game or a HHH was played/cheered, and everyone left with a smile on their face. Sounds pretty spirited to me.

There's also the other situations that have appeared when the two teams would play a pretty aggressive game, lots of contact, foul arguments in a general chippy game, but at the end, the two teams gathered and sung a "proper" cheer. Unfortunately, both teams seemed pretty unhappy with how the game played out, the "proper" cheer didn't undo the lack of spirit that was shown during the game, and a fun evening in the sun just wasn't as fun as it could have been. But hey, at least the teams "got it" when it came to the concept of the cheer at the end of the game.

I would much rather have a game where both teams respected eachother on the field, cheered the great plays on both sides, etc. etc. and followed that with a "copout" HHH, than a brutal game where both teams came prepared with a bad parody of a song to sing to the other team after they finished punishing eachother.

Everyone interprets spirit differently. Unfortunately some people seem to think there is only one "right" way.

You have to admit that HHH is the most unimaginative post game 'cheer' in existence. It's
the sportsmanship equivalent
of saying "bless you" after a sneeze.

If you manage to pull it off while having some interaction with the other team, more power
to you, but I gotta wonder,
why not shout anything else? Why are you so unimaginative?

--

You bring up two different cheers under two very different scenarios and try to use that
experience to draw conclusions
on the two cheers. That's not very useful.

I wonder how differently the players involved in that chippy game would have felt if they'd
walked to their corners, shat
out a HHH and left without any interaction with the other team.

I've never seen a second game of ultimate where a 3 minute interaction with the other team
would eat into the
playtime, as opposed to the downtime between games. You have to wonder why do you say
HHH? Why not a little
personalized mini-cheer like you do before the game (or does your team simply shout its own
name)?

The content of the post-game cheer is irrelevant, what's important is that there's some sort
of interaction with the other
team. That's not impossible to achieve while saying HHH, but saying it from across the way
isn't interacting.

Thanks for the thoughts folks. I admit, I'm still getting used to the whole spirit thing. I'm happy to get more experienced ulty players' opinions on the issue.

It's not directly related, but certainly indirectly related. On the UPA Rules Blog, my first post(s) addressed spirit and what I thought about it. Rather than spew it all again here, have a read for yourself. See the www link.

In addition to this link, a related post also helps with the understanding, which is the post about calls and contests:

http://uparules.blogspot.com/2007/02/about-calls-and-contests.html

(... which is a different link than the www one...)