Strip Clarification

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#1

I love how you can read the rules over and over, and just end up more confused when you started. Every time I think I read a fine point that makes everything clear, I read something else that smashes my dream. Anyways, hope someone can clear this up for me, because I've seen it happen several times in the last few weeks.

Player A is looking to throw the disc, and as they are bringing their arm forward in a throwing motion, Player B (their mark) smacks the disc down and to the ground just as Player A is releasing the disc.

Now if Player A is in clear possession of the disc (pivoting, looking to throw, etc) when Player B knocks it down, this of course is a strip. I'd like to know what can be considered "control" of the disc, if Player A is making a throwing motion and releasing the disc, can this be considered "control"? As the disc is being brought forward, it could be argued that the disc is rotating (spinning?) as the players' wrist moves forward. Is that being too picky? What about really awful thumber throws where the disc is spinning off their thumb during the throwing motion?

Throw: "A disc in flight following any throwing motion (including a fake) that results in the thrower losing contact with the disc."

The disc ended up in flight (albeit very brief), they lost contact with it, but the defender initated contact, but did Player A still have control?

Maybe this is as simple as "they're still touching it, they have control", but that seems a little grey to me. Almost every single team that I've seen this happen to has a different explanation of the outcome, so I'd like to find out what the specific ruling is.

/endramble

I don't think you have to worry about having the specific criteria for calling a Strip work with
what you're describing. One could argue that the thrower loses possession due to the strip,
but as you indicate the thrower is pretty much losing possession either way, so I don't think
it'd be an effective argument. There are more specific rules that better apply.

XVI.H.3.a.1) A throwing foul may be called when there is non-incidental contact between the
thrower and marker. The disc in a thrower’s possession is considered part of the thrower.

II.O) Possession of the disc: Sustained contact with, and control of, a non-spinning disc.

So, it's either a foul (of type throwing) or not, no need to worry about Strips. The real crux of
your question though is what's defined as possession?

Well, you're right that it is a bit ambiguous as to what exactly "sustained contact with, and
control of a non-spinning disc" can mean. However, I think this is a situation where more
specific detail would only cause more holes and issues than leaving it up to the referees' (the
14 players') discretion for interpretation.

I think it's generally accepted that when you're holding the disc in your hand, you have
possession. Once you let it go, once you release the pass, even though you may still be
touching the disc (it's dragging off the tip of your finger say), I don't think there's a sound
argument for possession.

Maybe a good way to visualize possession is to imagine the scenario you're describing playing
out in reverse. Would you consider the disc caught when it has only just reached the finger-
tips? Probably not, so therefore no possession either way.

So, in the case where the marker smacks the disc after the thrower has released their grip,
but before the disc has completely left contact with the throwers fingers, I'd say the thrower
has no possession, and that it's not a foul. In reality, this is quite a rare event and is nearly
impossible to detect with certainty, so it will be up to the thrower to decide and for the
marker to contest or not.

After an ambiguously close d-block/foul against newer people on my teams, I'll ask "was the
disc still in your hand?" I think the throwers answer to that is the best criteria for determining
a foul or not.

"The disc ended up in flight (albeit very brief), they lost contact with it, but the defender initated contact, but did Player A still have control?"

Once the disc has been released from your hand you no longer have control over it. So by all account it sounds like a bitchen D-Block.

Only the thrower knows whether he has control of the disk or not.

If strip is called after you made a nice D-block, the only thing you can do make a very firm contest to show that you believe you owned him.

Heh, Robert, that's funny.

You said only the thrower knows if they had control or not. Then you said that you should
emphatically make it known that you think they were wrong about their assessment of their own
possession.

Funny stuff.