The principle of verticality

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Hi all,


I'd like some clarification on the Airspace Violation rule.


According to the handbook:

"All players have the right to the space immediately above them. Thus, a player cannot prevent an opponent from making an attempt on a pass by reaching over an opponent. Should contact occur before the outcome of the play is determined, it is a foul on the player restricting the vertical space."


As the rule was explained to me, a player cannot grab the disc out of the vertical column of space above another player. However, the last sentence seems to imply that contact needs to occur for it to be a foul. Is that true?


A situation that happened in a recent game is as follows:


The offensive player was in position to catch the disc. He was stopped. The defensive player jumped and grabbed the disc from above the offensive player's head. The disc was clearly above the offensive player and in his vertical space... there was no debate about that. However, no contact occured and it was a clean grab by the defense. Is this an airspace violation?


One other note is that, in this case, the offensive player was in fact slightly taller than the defensive player. Does that matter?


Thanks,

Zaven

No violation... the vertical airspace rule has to do with being "restricted" from making a play on the disc. If you can CLEANLY outreach me, if I jump to maximum and reach up, and you can take the disc from above me without hitting me, you have made a clean defensive play. No violation.

LOL, meme is wrong of course, as he or she would have realized by simply reading the first post.


There is no "equal right" to the vertical space above you, it belongs to you and nobody else but you.


If you are prevented someone from making a bid on the disc by someone going to their space, it is a foul. The rule goes on to say if there is contact, it is a foul. The rule is meant to discourage dangerous D. Now, if you go into someone's vertical zone and don't prevent them from making a bid on the disc, no foul - that'd be pretty rare though (why'd they be in the vicinity?)


First, let me rephrase my mangled last sentence.


"If you prevent someone from making a bid on the disc by going into their space, it is a foul. The rule goes on to say if there is contact, it is a foul. The rule is meant to discourage dangerous D. Now, if you go into someone's vertical zone and don't prevent them from making a bid on the disc, no foul - that'd be pretty rare though (why'd they be in the vicinity?)


I agree it is not clearly drafted provision but the key sentence is "Thus, a player cannot prevent an opponent from making an attempt on a pass by reaching over an opponent."


As I read it, if you leap into the air, into my vertical space and take my chance away - even without touching me or even threatening me, then it is a violation of verticality.

Smug is a dangerous thing to be, Why Not.


Meme is correct - nobody has any more right than anybody else to the space above them. This is why one player cannot prevent another player from trying to get there. The rule does not prohibit making a play on the disc. It does not prohibit you from taking advantage of a physiological or performance advantage. It does not prohibit you from doing anything other than preventing another player from making an attempt on a pass by reaching over them.


In other words, if I want to jump straight up for a disc, but I can't jump because your arm is in the way, it's a foul on you.* If I jump and our arms collide because we're both reaching for the same disc, well, there may be grounds for a foul call based on the basic definition of a foul (keeping in mind incidental contact), but I am still able to make an attempt on the pass so this rule does not apply. If you jump higher than me (or time your jump better than me) and grab the disc before I can, well done and no foul.


Really, while a lot of player area aware of this rule, it is applicable in very few circumstances.


* unfortunately, the wording prevents a foul call unless you actually do jump and cause contact. That, however, is a whole other can of worms.

At the risk of sounding smug...


"Nobody has any more right than anybody else to the space above them."?


Equal rights? Really?


Again, the rules says "All players have the right to the space immediately above them"


To me that seems to create a heirarchy of rights; i.e. the player immediately under the space has the right to that space above and beyond all other players. :)


I referred to the this phrase as the key phrase because it seems to go the furthest..."Thus, a player cannot prevent an opponent from making an attempt on a pass by reaching over an opponent." Am I missing something? If I'm prevented from making an attempt by you reaching over me, is that a violation?


Anyway, I do agree that it is a rarely needed and invoked rule.

I think it is important to consider that the chances of the disc being in the tiny space immediately above a person are very slim. I can't think of the last time I caught a disc directly over my head, it is normally to the side or infront a bit. So fair game on the air space just don't kill each other over it.

Jon By Jon

The rules as written are clear. If contact occurs, it is a foul on the player restricting the vertical space.


If there is no contact - great D.


Let's take some (educated?) guesses at the intent of the rule:


1. Is it to encourage safety? Probably... a lot of the rules are built around the premise that contact is dangerous.


2. Is it to give shorter players a break? Probably not - that would be the only rule designed to favor a certain body-type.


I've heard this call before - I have a right to a disc directly above me - which is untrue. You have the right to MAKE A BID UNHINDERED for a disc directly above you.

If you interpreted the rule as no one is allowed to play the disk in the vertical space above another player then what would be the point of playing D.


The point of the rule is to not hinder a player making a bid on a disk above their head. If someone has the athletic ability to play the disk without inhibiting or contacting the person below they should not be penalized.


Many newbie players misinterpret the rule and think they have a 'free catch' like NFL football.

Hi Z,


Given the situation you had described, the catch should stand. The player made a clean play for the disc, caught the disc, and there was no contact.


'As the rule was explained to me, a player cannot grab the disc out of the vertical column of space above another player.' Whoever did the explaining to you did not do a very good job of reading up on the rules himself.


I am 5'9" and 100 years old. I couldn't jump if you put a rattlesnake in my path. . . That allows for plenty of times that other players have been able to launch themselves up and get to discs that I cannot reach, or discs that I don't make a play on. Morgan H or Andrew L and a host of other stringbeans out there can do it without leaving the ground, for crying out loud!


Good for the opponent. Too bad for me. Play on. . .

Happy Birthday Art!

Thanks for the replies, everyone!


Z

Posted by Art: "Andrew L and a host of other stringbeans out there can do it without leaving the ground, for crying out loud! "


Bastard used to do that to me when he was out here....I'm afraid Tanis could do it now....... :)