"but you're only allowed 3 steps"

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Following a discussion last weekend, I thought I'd point out something related to travels, maybe clearing up some misconceptions. The situation that prompted the discussion was a player catching a disc on the run, stopping, and backing up before looking to make a throw.


There is a misconception that after catching a disc, you have three steps to stop. This is wrong.


XV.C: . After catching a pass, the receiver is only allowed the fewest number of steps required to come to a stop and establish a pivot.


There is further discussion of changing direction, and (the source of the confusion) when it's permissible to throw before stopping and establishing a pivot. However, if you're running fast enough that it takes you ten steps to come to a stop, then you're allowed ten steps and your pivot is to be established wherever you stop after those ten steps. Unless you obviously take more steps to stop than were necessary, you do not have to back up. Also, if you're barely moving when you catch a pass, you do not get to take any steps to "slow down"

Does that mean that if a travel is called on you, you can contest it? How do they know how many steps you need to stop? Personally, i don't think anyone needs 10 steps to stop, no matter how fast, but others may disagree. I realize here they mean when it is obvious that the player is taking more steps than necessay, but who get to decide? basically, is travelling a contestable call?

I don't think anyone would need exactly 10 steps to stop. However, it might be the case that

someone like Donovan Baily moving at 45 km/h and having a mass of 80-90kg might need that

many to stop without hurting himself.


Travelling is not contestable. This is why it is an often abused call.


To add to Gin-Boh's post, I don't think three steps has ever been in the rules. When I started

playing it was kind of a guideline as to how many steps it should take to stop. Most of the cuts in

those days were quite short so you didn't have a full head of steam going when you caught the

disc.


Now you can take two steps, if you don't change directions, and throw as long as it is before the

third point of contact. This is the only reference to three steps in the rules. This came about in

order to allow "the greatest" to be legal (you can throw before establishing a pivot foot so long as

it is before the third point of contact after catching the disc).

Gin-Boh, I admit: you are technically correct.


Clearly the "proper" thing to have done is call a travel and stop play entirely.


Personally, and especially in the vul, I like the idea of the offensive player realizing their infraction and correcting it. In the whole sotg and all....

Burnout - what do you mean "Clearly the 'proper' thing to have done is call a travel and stop play entirely" ??


I think what Geoff is saying is that it is *not* a travel to take a number of steps if that's what it takes to stop. So, basically, the person does not need to back up.

It is oft abused and over the years I have given up 'contesting' (it is non contestable after all) the call.


If it is a case where I have not yet thrown the disc (the 4-5 steps to stop scenario) I will quickly back up a couple of steps tap the ground and throw. No words are uttered by me in this case.


Some players do abuse the "stopping as quickly as possible" thing by clearly sauntering a couple more steps before establishing a pivot. I make the call then just because they were being lazy and trying to establish a better field position.

CL, congrats on not being corrected on a post - that's exactly what I'm saying. If someone catches on the run and can't stop before their 6th (or 4th, or 8th...) step, it is not a travel, there is no obligation either moral or by the rules to back up. In fact, to back up is a travel.


And on the "contest" issue, YankyD is right that it's not a "contest/no contest" call. However, if you suspect that the call was made because of a misunderstanding/misapplication of the rules (such as what I brought up at the top), you could/should ask for clarification and explain that the call was not correct. However, if you do this, make sure beforehand that you are right, and if the discussion lasts any appreciable time finish it on the sideline.

Mohottie,


While your effort to minimise arguments and keep the game going is admirable, tapping the disc to the ground is not. Whether correct or not, a travel call is a stoppage of play, and a check is required to resume play. A check requires explicit acknowledgement of readiness by the defense and a clear indication that play has resumed.


Also, by ignoring the "abuse" you may be perpetuating misunderstanding of the rule, which only causes more innecessary interruptions in the long run.

And you should keep in mind that the person making the call may actually believe that you have taken extra steps that were unnecessary. I have made that call and earned myself a torrent of abuse.


At some point we need to get away from the paradigm of arguing vociferously, believing that the caller was wrong or the rule misapplied. A quiet discussion, querying what the call was based on might suffice, after all this is freaking recreational ultimate on a nice fall day.


From the preface to the rules: "It assumed that no Ultimate player will intentionally violate the rules; thus there are no harsh penalties for inadvertent infractions..." -So why argue?

--> "If it is a case where I have not yet thrown the disc (the 4-5 steps to stop scenario) I will quickly back up a couple of steps tap the ground and throw. No words are uttered by me in this case. " <--


In trying to correct your 'bad' based on your interpretation of the rule, you may actually be giving yourself an additional advantage. When you're running forward and catch the disc, as a defender, I'm running with you and stopping somewhat with you so that I get my mark set up at the right time. If you stop and then back up a few steps, you'll now be a few more meters away from where I've stopped based on your original momentum, instead of staying where you were. "Travel!" If it legitimately takes you 4-5 steps to stop in that case, that's where you should stay, it's completely valid and actually required by the rules.


--> "From the preface to the rules: "It assumed that no Ultimate player will intentionally violate the rules; thus there are no harsh penalties for inadvertent infractions..." -So why argue? " <--


Right, exactly. And the next time someone starts arguing and/or claiming that you made a bogus call intentionally--which is oftentimes where the vociferous argument is based, or seems to be, anyway--just call a "violation" on them because they violated this "assumption" statement in the rules. See what they have to say to that!


... and I'm kidding, by the way. Maybe.

The issue that I have with this is the 'hold on for dear life' stop that newbies often use - putting all of their energy into stopping, holding on by one toe. It's not dangerous, but it's not necessary, and it just looks silly. But it is what we should all be doing, by strict interpretation of the rules.


To me, the point is usually less about number of steps than the change in direction - we used to call it an A league travel, where the receiver turns just before or just after receiving the disc, stepping around the advancing mark to see the field and make the throw. One step closer to the end zone rarely makes much difference. Like the handler aganist the zone who takes two little steps toward the disc so she can take another two or three steps aftre catching it - safety is not an issue, but a travel is rarely (ever?) called.

"If someone catches on the run and can't stop before their 6th (or 4th, or 8th...) step, it is not a travel"


- I'm sorry, I will call and insist on a travel EVERY time ANYONE takes 8 steps to come to a stop. Hell, 6 steps is way too many!


May have misread, but I need to clarify something: after a Travel call, the mark gets to D up? Even if theyre 20 feet behind?

"Burnout - what do you mean "Clearly the 'proper' thing to have done is call a travel and stop play entirely" ??

I think what Geoff is saying is that it is *not* a travel to take a number of steps if that's what it takes to stop. So, basically, the person does not need to back up. "


By "proper" I mean: "Even the offending player thought they took too many steps. So did I. And no, there is no contesting my call"

"- I'm sorry, I will call and insist on a travel EVERY time ANYONE takes 8 steps to come to a

stop. Hell, 6 steps is way too many!"


Burnout, either you've never caught a disc that you had to reach for while on a dead run, or

you've got bionic knees and aren't afraid to wear them out (or both).


There's lots of times (of course by no means a majority of times), that you need a lot of

steps to slow. If this isn't the case for you, terrific, but understand the physics and physiology

of running and stopping, and accept that sometimes somebody needs 5,6,7,8 steps to stop.


If they're trying to stop the whole time, then there's no travel. If they are *obviously* taking

more steps than required to stop, then it's a travel.


Nobody's talking about an easy jogging catch made right in their chest, and then taking 5

steps while slowing down. Likely they would be taking more steps than was truly necessary,

and it would be a travel.


There's a good reason that there's no number of steps in the rule, it's because every body,

every catch, every field is different. If you take 2 steps after you catch, but it was 1

more than you needed to stop (you were walking and caught it), that's a travel.


This, as Geoff pointed out in the OP is contrary to the incorrect conventional wisdom that you

and many share. It's this type of misunderstood application of made up rules that you're

arguing

that is a big part of the problem.

"If someone catches on the run and can't stop before their 6th (or 4th, or 8th...) step, it is not a travel, there is no obligation either moral or by the rules to back up. In fact, to back up is a travel."


OK, but if someone's 'extra steps to slow down' take him across and into the endzone, (NOT IN!) THAT comes back to the goal line, right? No matter how inconvenient this is for who's marking him? Also what if 'establishing his pivot foot' takes him into the end zone?

What I hate is when I pull off the running two step catch and throw and get travel called on me.

Totally ruins the flow, which was the whole point of why I wanted the fast release in the first place.

Esp. if you've got a good give and go sequence happening.


--> "May have misread, but I need to clarify something: after a Travel call, the mark gets to D up? Even if theyre 20 feet behind? " <--


Players are to resume their positions at the time of the call. If the mark was 20 feet behind at the time of the call, that's where they should be when the disc is checked back in... the travel doesn't improve that.