getting airborne from OB

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what is the call if an offensive player's last contact before being airborne is out-of- bounds but catches the disc in the air and the player's first contact while landing is in-bounds?

The offensive player is OB until they touch IB after the catch. So, the disc is OB at the instant that the OB offensive player touches the disc. (11th Ref: IX.E.)

For offence, the basic requirements are... jump from IB and land IB for the reception to be complete. If either of those "IB"s are actually OB, then it's an OB catch and a turnover.

"Out-of-bounds" or "OB" is the most correct call, I'd say.

Definitely. "Out" is also acceptable.

Please god anything but "Check Feet". That passive-aggressive, piece of garbage, non-call
should be dragged out behind the shed and shot.

Ask me how I really feel about it. :)

I figured it was about that time to revisit the perennial Check Feet argument...

thanks Mortakai for the clarification.

temple, like you i have a more then mild distaste for the check feet call. i deal with it by politely ignoring it. if i'm actually out of bounds my mark can point it out for me with an "out or ob call" rather then trying to break the flow with the aforementioned request.

Yep, ignore it entirely.

I was reminded because last week somebody right next to me said it a few times on a play that
was half the length and the whole width away.

Actually I usually don't ignore it. I usually politely say something like "check feet's not really a
call, but if you see us OB, don't be afraid to just call OB."

I share your same thoughts... 'Check Feet' is quite an annoying call for me too.

Unfortunately, is a small league such as EUPA (Edmonton Ultimate Players Association)... Where only a handful of players really know the rules and 'Spirit of the Game' I feel its a better situation to hold the tounge.

I realize if I play in a relatively low teir where the players are all new. They are still learning the rules, and such, have not had a taste of competitive Ultimate. I feel that having to make the call 'Check Feet' allows the new players understand the concept of 'Spirit of the Game' because they realize that you are not being aggressive about your call. It at least reinforces the 'Spirit of the Game' concept at a very early stage. However, at a later stage, players understand the concept and are able to play the game with that in mind.

Any thoughts?

"I feel that having to make the call 'Check Feet' allows the new players understand the
concept of 'Spirit of the Game' because they realize that you are not being aggressive about
your call. It at least reinforces the 'Spirit of the Game' concept at a very early stage.
However, at a later stage, players understand the concept and are able to play the game with
that in mind."

Actually, I think you're doing the opposite.

Instead of teaching people that OB calls are ok, that anybody can make them when they see
it, you're actually teaching them to perpetuate the problem.

You're telling them that a wishy-washy 'hey, I don't know if you're OB, but do you mind
stopping what you're doing and making sure you're IB' is what's best. No, that sucks. If I'm
OB, please call it. If you don't see me OB (and of course I don't think I'm OB), be quiet and
play on.

Cool. If there is no other opinions against Temple's thoughts I will go on calling what I think.

It's not much fun to be labelled as the fanatical rules-crusader, but there's definitely something to be said for following the actual rules.

"Out-of-bounds" and "travel" (or even "violation") are calls that have been codified and written down for everyone to see. We all know what those calls mean, and we can look them up. "Check feet" is ambiguous, it means slightly different things to different people. Different players will have different expectations or reactions depending on the specific etiquette of the group with whom they learned the game. The effect is unpredictable. It's not a rule; it has no modus operandi.

When we try to incorporate notions of etiquette into our calls, when we deceive ourselves into thinking some calls are taboo or impolite, we invite confusion and argument into our games. If any of us think there was an infraction, and that said infraction may have significantly affected the outcome of the play, we should make a decisive call. No good can come of making a half-call.

In the best-case scenario, "Check feet" is either treated as an "out" call by everyone on the field, or treated as a prelude to an "out" call. In the worst cases, we see a fiasco: half-stopped play, disputes over stall count, whether the call was meant as "out" or "travel," etc.

It's so much better to just follow the rules we have. Why can't we learn SotG while following the real rules?

When coaching clinics, I like to remind everyone early that "check" has only one meaning in ultimate. Check feet, check disc, and check equipment and so forth are just rumours.

boy do i miss the heady days of yelling "EQUIPMENT!!!" while my check took off for a strike... :)

you should hop over to OCUA to check out MHJ's post by post rant about 'check feet'. good stuff.

-->It's so much better to just follow the rules we have. Why can't we learn SotG while following the real rules?<--

...in fact, following the real rules IS SotG.

I.B. Spirit of the Game: Ultimate relies upon a spirit of sportsmanship that places the responsibility for fair play on the player. [...] never at the expense of [...] adherence to the agreed upon rules [...].

I appreciate the view point. It does make a lot more sense. Thank you.

However, what is OCUA?

"...in fact, following the real rules IS SotG."

Unfortunately a lot of teams are offended when you actually make a call by the rules. It seems in a lot of games, players think they are being more spirited by not calling anything, they don't want to be "mean" by making a call they feel is right. At least 50% of the time, the offending player will argue ANY call made against them, because, well, nobody called anything last game/week/trimester. Setting that precident sucks when you face a team not accustomed to having to actually play by the "rules". I have to constantly remind my team that if they see any sort of violation they can and should call it, to prevent further incidents in the game. Letting things go usually ends up in things spiralling out of control near the end of a high intensity game, players often end up arguing "well WE didn't call any fouls so why are YOU now? CHEATER!" Maybe not quite like that but I'm sure you all see what I'm getting at :)

I've had a couple incidents this year where teams scoff at some of the simplest calls made, which makes me wonder if teams as a whole are even reading the rulebook. One player on a team just laughed sarcastically that I dared to call a travel, I guess taking 6 steps was just too picky. I even had another player spit at me when I suggested he returned to his original position when a pick was called, sad thing is that the "mentor" for that team didn't really care, he was more concerned with the score than the spirit. What are mentors for again?

First thing I do at the beginning of the season is give (hey you, click this link here!) the rules to everyone on my team to refresh their memories. Not everyone will remember everything, but repetition is key. We as a team have a lot more fun when everyone keeps a cool head, and doesn't take everything so damn seriously. It's just a game, you play dozens per year, every year, if you're not having fun, what's the point of playing?

Tubster, I've enabled an e-mail link for you to enter into a dialogue with me if you'd like.

I was at the game you're referring to, and you have mentioned me, but I am not the me-n-t-o-r for that team. I am a rostered player, so you're already off the mark a bit.

I did not see the incident you are referring to. So please don't suggest I don't care.

Please understand that there are two sides to every story. Within the Rules of Ultimate, there is a foul call and an opportunity to contest. Both can be offered up by opposing players within the rules and within SOTG. Your making a call, or my making a call, does not mean that we are right. It means we believe we are right but that there is an opportunity for another perspective.

You suggest that a player spat at you, and he says he did not spit at you. Did the captain of your team come over and speak with our team captain? Or did you, perceiving a problem, come over and talk to me if you thought I was the team mentor?

Now back to your regularly scheduled forum thread...